@Katie, I think he remained unnamed because that is the style of Poe. We dont know exactly who the narrator is but we know that He is important. Also it might have been because he has know changed his name to protect himself from a further incident such as this
I agree with Kate and that it was his yawp. Poe probably had some hidden problems with himself and this was the short story that was used as that yawp. @Ian I think that the gates were two way because he wouldn't let anyone into his life, and he knew he could never get away from himself as we see from the "other" William Wilson
So we know that the person that angered him was actually himself. Do you think that Poe wanted us to realize this at first or read and then have it be a twist?
@Katie, I think the original William Wilson suffered a mental illness that convinced him that he had a knowledgeable gift inherited by his family, yet the other William was his shadow, a type of conscience making him suffer for all he has done with his "gift".
@Harper: I think that he physically stabbed himself, kind of like the movie Black Swan in which the main character competes with herself and in the end kills herself and doesn't know it until she actually dies.
Katie: I would say that William Wilson remains unnamed because he is in a sense a shadow of Poe himself, as the writer and almost becomes the reader throughout the course of the novel.
@cassie- I agree with you, I think he stabbed William Wilson, his conscience, and therefore, stabbed himself. And his nemesis William Wilson represents an external struggle of the internal conflict with himself.
@Michaela- I think that Poe wanted to make this story come together more at the ending. Throughout the story this "imatator" seems to be a real person.
@ Katie Well didn't he say that he was William Wilson and the other person was William Wilson? So he could just be saying that it was him, without really wanting to admit it. But he didn't mean that it was really his real name, but what he was just going to call himself, so he could hide his name and make it easier to comment about this story and keep the story straight.
Katie, It might have been a person meant to sabotage this persons life, or it might have been an illusion of his mind, or it could have been some random crazy person. It is a mystery that leads to the rest of the story, after the typical climactic ending
Ava- I agree with what you said about him having a mental illness because in the beginning of the story he was saying that him and his own family had this unique " race"
@AnnaS "A large mirror--so at first it seemed to me in my confusion--now stood where none had been perceptible before; and, as I stepped up to it in extremity of terror, mine own image, but with features all pale and dabbled in blood, advanced to meet me with a feeble and tottering gait." He basically stated that he realized, in the mirror, that he stabbed himself. I don't think the blood is figurative.
When at the end he saw the mirror, I think that represented the replica of him self in a opposite term, like how the original was confident (arrogant) and loud while his copy was silent. There is also that idea that his whispers represented that voice in your head you are not always willing to hear.
Harper- I think that he stabbed himself figuratively.I think he was killing the moral part of him and by saying "In me didst thou exist-and in my death, see... how utterly though hast murdered thyself," he was describing how he had essentially killed his good character by killing his alter ego/moral self.
Have you noticed that almost all of Poe's stories have to do with a person or several who are mentally ill... What does that tell us about Poe and his writings?
@ Harper. I think that it is figuratively dead. Like the saying, dying inside. That's where you are alive but can loss purpose. SO he could have lost his purpose of life.
@Kelsie: After this point in the story, I began to think that the other Wilson was a figure of the first Wilson's conscience and who he may really want to be. When the first Wilson is being proved wrong by himself and his way of making money is messed up by himself essentially, he gets frustrated to the point of running away from the other Wilson and eventually killing him.
If you heard Michael begin the inner circle discussion, he did some research as I did and found that Edgar Allen Poe's birthday is January 19th, the same birthday given to both Wilsons. Is Poe making a similarity between his character and himself?
Katie- I think the person is himself, but a more perfect version of himself. Like Ben said, It/he is William Wilson's conscience. He shows up whenever William is doing something amoral, and makes sure he is not allowed to do that amoral thing.
Cassie, Yes I do think that the house was significant. If you are kept in a home for so long and know not who you are and that they are hiding you from the world. William Wilson might be a very important person and this character is someone who was created to replace him.
@Rebecca, the first person point of view lets the reader feel what the narrator feels, instead of a third party outside narration, which just tells you what the narrator feels. It gives a personal aspect to the story.
@Katie: I've learned that writers are able to go down in history and write pieces that are increasingly compelling through their experience. So, I believe this is true for Poe too, and that his writing might very well express himself.
@ Cassie- I think his house reflects not only "William Wilson" but also Poe. The fact that he had gates and thick doors that didn't let anyone out or in represents how Poe and William, cannot get away from themselves and they won't let anyone get actually really close to them.
@Michaela: Just as John said in the inner circle, the whisper is simply how Wilson is able to hear his conscience. The second Wilson's opinions and pointers are not meant to be heard by others because in a real life situation of battles with oneself those comments inside ones head are not heard by others, which may have frustrated Wilson to kill "himself".
I thought it was really interesting how Poe's other short story that we read, "The Fall on House of Usher" and this story have similar character parallelism with the twins in "Fall..." and then with William Wilson, what do you think of this?
@ Harper. Well yes. He seems to include a bit of himself in every story almost giving out puzzle pieces of his life away. Do you think that he was intentional about this, or it just comes out?
Steven, It might have been because he was writing about himself and what he was feeling so that he could write better. It might have just been a quirk by Poe, or it could be because Poe really did have this happen to him, in some way and he is retelling them.
Michaela: I think that Poe had the intent of us realizing that these two people were actually one person at the end (as a twist)because then we are able to see what the main character thinks. Instead of just simply stating that he was crazy and thought that he was really 2 people, Poe had us think that they were one person so that we could understand what the main character was experiencing and not be so judgemental, like he was crazy and that doesn't make any sense.
@michaelamcleod: I think that the significance of whispering in this story is to show mystery. A lot of answers in the story never get answered and it is all very secretive. It just sets a tone.
@AnnaS, but he also says that, when Wilson speaks again, he imagined himself saying it. And what Wilson says is that William Wilson is also dead. I think he killed himself to kill Wilson, but he had to kill himself in the process.
@Rebecca, the gothic element was brought to place with the narrator because Poe might have made it so the reader could only see his side of the story, and with his limiting knowledge of what the other William is about, we see his confused phase on why someone is trying to be a better copy of him, but it is really just him imagining his conscience alive and trying to ruin him, and we don't realize this until it is too late.
@Steven- I think his writings are his barabaric yawps. Everything that he writes about wouldn't normally be accepted into society so he uses his writings to vent his feelings and let his crazy self go.
Class: I think Poe used the idea of the uncanny very well in this story. Wilson is battling with himself and afraid of himself although oneself should be familiar with oneself. Any thoughts? Does this make sense?
@Spencer: I think the other Wilson is his conscience. His inner conflict came out in a figure of his imagination as a man exactly like himself. He is not a real person.
Michaela- I think the whispering is to show that he's just talking to himself. Like when some people have a mental illness where they talk to themselves they don't shout out what they're saying unless it's a catharist( or whatever the word is) like when Wilson had one towards the end
@ Katie. But if they were his barbaric yawps then would they need be different from the time or society. If that is his yawp then what evidence is there to show that?
@Michaela,I think he wanted us to take away the lesson that we shouldn't battle our inner demons because we will injure ourselves in the process of killing the demon.
Class- Would you agree that William Wilson has a moment of catharsis when he kills the other William Wilson? Or do you see another point in the story when this happens?
@MadeleineJ: Good point. Yes, I think it was intentional he connected the main character to himself in order to make the character represent his own story. I believe Poe was passionate about this, and he probably went through a similar conflict of battling with himself.
In connection to anyone's life, we might have had a time where we have felt an enemy try to be a better version of us, which seemed to be the case at first, yet what caused such a mystery is how this other Wilson was a complete stranger until the original Wilson left his family and their treating his illness. He is all of a sudden two people, yet complete opposites, and he does not overall hate him, because he still has that feeling of himself somewhere in the second Wilson.
I think that a lot of the reason behind Poe's work was to confront his own consience and in doing so help others to cofront their own to answer the quote at the begining, "What say of it? what say (of) CONSCIENCE grim, That spectre in my path?"
I believe Poe wrote this story more for himself than his readers, but I think he wanted us to take away that if we ever battled dual personalities that we need to fight through it and prevent ourselves from acknowledging the other personality.
@AnnaS, so in the last 3 paragraphs of the story, William Wilson says he hears Wilson speak. He also says that he imagines himself saying it instead of Wilson. The thing that Wilson says is that William Wilson killed Wilson and himself. So I think he's saying that he killed himself in the process of killing his conscious and he finally realized that it's been himself all along. I don't know if you get what I'm saying or not but I hope I explained my thinking to you:)
Kind of like what John said in the inner circle, I think Poe does a good job of being able to show the honest truth of people. He doesn't sugarcoat it at all, he goes deep into the personality and lives of the people he writes about.
Anna:I think this story is meant to symbolize the idea of the double person. How you have your outer appearance and then your inner subconscious. It does make sense that you could be afraid of yourself in the way that William Wilson is, but I wonder if William Wilson was afraid of himself, why didn't he try to change so that he wouldn't be afraid?
@Allise: I do believe the moment of catharsis is when he kills the other Wilson because he seems to hear Wilson as himself, and sees Wilson dying as if it were him in a mirror. This is really when he realizes how the other Wilson was trying to help him as another part of himself.
I agree with Micheal, because something that Poe brings to his stories always has that element of sin and how the actions of some people cannot be reversed, just a cold hard truth.
Allise: I think that the moment of catharsis for William was when the mirror suddenly appeared, creating the "ah-ha" moment for the reader and the narrator.
Why do you think that "William Wilson" remained unnamed?
ReplyDeleteIn the end, Did Wilson literally stab himself or figuratively stab himself(as in morally dead while he is still alive)?
ReplyDelete@Harper, he literally stabbed himself
ReplyDeleteHarper- I think it was just figuratively because he kept talking and during the story he was talking about how much he hated him( his other side)
ReplyDelete@Harper- I think that he figuratively battled himself and this battle is an example of how he is struggling in real life.
ReplyDelete@Katie, I think he remained unnamed because that is the style of Poe. We dont know exactly who the narrator is but we know that He is important. Also it might have been because he has know changed his name to protect himself from a further incident such as this
ReplyDelete@Kelsie: What evidence do you have?
ReplyDeleteHarper: He literally stabbed himself, because what he thought was another person was really just himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kate and that it was his yawp. Poe probably had some hidden problems with himself and this was the short story that was used as that yawp.
ReplyDelete@Ian I think that the gates were two way because he wouldn't let anyone into his life, and he knew he could never get away from himself as we see from the "other" William Wilson
So we know that the person that angered him was actually himself. Do you think that Poe wanted us to realize this at first or read and then have it be a twist?
ReplyDelete@Katie F I believe he remained unnamed because the story was partially about struggles Poe encountered and didn't want his readers to know.
ReplyDeleteWhat or who do you think the "other" William Wilson was?
ReplyDelete@Paul: What further incident may have happened?
ReplyDelete@Katie, I think the original William Wilson suffered a mental illness that convinced him that he had a knowledgeable gift inherited by his family, yet the other William was his shadow, a type of conscience making him suffer for all he has done with his "gift".
ReplyDeleteand why?
ReplyDeleteWhat impact did the incident while playing cards have on the ending?
ReplyDelete@Harper: I think that he physically stabbed himself, kind of like the movie Black Swan in which the main character competes with herself and in the end kills herself and doesn't know it until she actually dies.
ReplyDeleteKatie: I would say that William Wilson remains unnamed because he is in a sense a shadow of Poe himself, as the writer and almost becomes the reader throughout the course of the novel.
ReplyDelete@Harper: I think that Wilson did not literally stab himself. It says, "Yet, henceforth art thou dead --dead to the World, to Heaven and to Hope."
ReplyDelete@cassie- I agree with you, I think he stabbed William Wilson, his conscience, and therefore, stabbed himself. And his nemesis William Wilson represents an external struggle of the internal conflict with himself.
ReplyDelete@Michaela- I think that Poe wanted to make this story come together more at the ending. Throughout the story this "imatator" seems to be a real person.
ReplyDelete@Harper, I also believe that he figuratively stabbed himself because it seems like he was fighting with himself throughout the whole story.
ReplyDelete@ Katie Well didn't he say that he was William Wilson and the other person was William Wilson? So he could just be saying that it was him, without really wanting to admit it. But he didn't mean that it was really his real name, but what he was just going to call himself, so he could hide his name and make it easier to comment about this story and keep the story straight.
ReplyDeleteKatie, It might have been a person meant to sabotage this persons life, or it might have been an illusion of his mind, or it could have been some random crazy person. It is a mystery that leads to the rest of the story, after the typical climactic ending
ReplyDelete@ Katie I think that the "other" William Wilson was the real William Wilson's other personality which he wanted to dispose of.
ReplyDeleteAva- I agree with what you said about him having a mental illness because in the beginning of the story he was saying that him and his own family had this unique " race"
ReplyDelete@Katie, I think that maybe the other 'William Wilson' is another part of his mind that is the other parts of his personality.
ReplyDelete@AnnaS "A large mirror--so at first it seemed to me in my confusion--now stood where none had been perceptible before; and, as I stepped up to it in extremity of terror, mine own image, but with features all pale and dabbled in blood, advanced to meet me with a feeble and tottering gait." He basically stated that he realized, in the mirror, that he stabbed himself. I don't think the blood is figurative.
ReplyDeleteWhen at the end he saw the mirror, I think that represented the replica of him self in a opposite term, like how the original was confident (arrogant) and loud while his copy was silent. There is also that idea that his whispers represented that voice in your head you are not always willing to hear.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Poe so often write in first person? What does this add to the story? To its Gothic elements?
ReplyDeleteWhat brought the other William Wilson about?
ReplyDeleteDo you think the house where he lived has significance and what does it represent? (That he was unable to know for certain where he was)
ReplyDeleteHarper- I think that he stabbed himself figuratively.I think he was killing the moral part of him and by saying "In me didst thou exist-and in my death, see... how utterly though hast murdered thyself," he was describing how he had essentially killed his good character by killing his alter ego/moral self.
ReplyDeleteHave you noticed that almost all of Poe's stories have to do with a person or several who are mentally ill... What does that tell us about Poe and his writings?
ReplyDelete@ Harper. I think that it is figuratively dead. Like the saying, dying inside. That's where you are alive but can loss purpose. SO he could have lost his purpose of life.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of whispering in this story?
ReplyDelete@Kelsie: After this point in the story, I began to think that the other Wilson was a figure of the first Wilson's conscience and who he may really want to be. When the first Wilson is being proved wrong by himself and his way of making money is messed up by himself essentially, he gets frustrated to the point of running away from the other Wilson and eventually killing him.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the masquerade at the end represented the original William to hide? If so, from what?
ReplyDeleteIf you heard Michael begin the inner circle discussion, he did some research as I did and found that Edgar Allen Poe's birthday is January 19th, the same birthday given to both Wilsons. Is Poe making a similarity between his character and himself?
ReplyDeleteWhy would William Wilson only whisper to William, but yet talk the the men playing cards in a full voice?
ReplyDeleteKatie- I think the person is himself, but a more perfect version of himself. Like Ben said, It/he is William Wilson's conscience. He shows up whenever William is doing something amoral, and makes sure he is not allowed to do that amoral thing.
ReplyDeleteCassie, Yes I do think that the house was significant. If you are kept in a home for so long and know not who you are and that they are hiding you from the world. William Wilson might be a very important person and this character is someone who was created to replace him.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, the first person point of view lets the reader feel what the narrator feels, instead of a third party outside narration, which just tells you what the narrator feels. It gives a personal aspect to the story.
ReplyDeleteClass- Apparently, Poe used his own birthday for William's birthday. Why would Poe purposefully have made himself so similar to his characters?
ReplyDelete@Spencer- Whenever the other William Wilson comes into the story it is when he is intoxicated.
ReplyDelete@Spencer, I think it's the parts of himself that he does not like, or doesnt actually want to be a part of him.
ReplyDelete@Katie: I've learned that writers are able to go down in history and write pieces that are increasingly compelling through their experience. So, I believe this is true for Poe too, and that his writing might very well express himself.
ReplyDelete@ Cassie- I think his house reflects not only "William Wilson" but also Poe. The fact that he had gates and thick doors that didn't let anyone out or in represents how Poe and William, cannot get away from themselves and they won't let anyone get actually really close to them.
ReplyDelete@Michaela: Just as John said in the inner circle, the whisper is simply how Wilson is able to hear his conscience. The second Wilson's opinions and pointers are not meant to be heard by others because in a real life situation of battles with oneself those comments inside ones head are not heard by others, which may have frustrated Wilson to kill "himself".
ReplyDeleteI thought it was really interesting how Poe's other short story that we read, "The Fall on House of Usher" and this story have similar character parallelism with the twins in "Fall..." and then with William Wilson, what do you think of this?
ReplyDelete@ Michaela I think the whispering makes the statements whispered by the other William more personal to the narrator.
ReplyDelete@ Harper. Well yes. He seems to include a bit of himself in every story almost giving out puzzle pieces of his life away. Do you think that he was intentional about this, or it just comes out?
ReplyDeleteSteven, It might have been because he was writing about himself and what he was feeling so that he could write better. It might have just been a quirk by Poe, or it could be because Poe really did have this happen to him, in some way and he is retelling them.
ReplyDeleteMichaela: I think that Poe had the intent of us realizing that these two people were actually one person at the end (as a twist)because then we are able to see what the main character thinks. Instead of just simply stating that he was crazy and thought that he was really 2 people, Poe had us think that they were one person so that we could understand what the main character was experiencing and not be so judgemental, like he was crazy and that doesn't make any sense.
ReplyDelete@Harper: (And Steven.. you both asked the same question) I think it's in order to make a point.
ReplyDelete@michaelamcleod: I think that the significance of whispering in this story is to show mystery. A lot of answers in the story never get answered and it is all very secretive. It just sets a tone.
ReplyDelete@AnnaS, but he also says that, when Wilson speaks again, he imagined himself saying it. And what Wilson says is that William Wilson is also dead. I think he killed himself to kill Wilson, but he had to kill himself in the process.
ReplyDelete@Rebecca, the gothic element was brought to place with the narrator because Poe might have made it so the reader could only see his side of the story, and with his limiting knowledge of what the other William is about, we see his confused phase on why someone is trying to be a better copy of him, but it is really just him imagining his conscience alive and trying to ruin him, and we don't realize this until it is too late.
ReplyDelete@Steven- I think his writings are his barabaric yawps. Everything that he writes about wouldn't normally be accepted into society so he uses his writings to vent his feelings and let his crazy self go.
ReplyDelete@Claudia- I believe that these parallels between stories involving family members show that Poe feels alone and living in solitude.
ReplyDeleteClass: I think Poe used the idea of the uncanny very well in this story. Wilson is battling with himself and afraid of himself although oneself should be familiar with oneself. Any thoughts? Does this make sense?
ReplyDelete@Spencer: I think the other Wilson is his conscience. His inner conflict came out in a figure of his imagination as a man exactly like himself. He is not a real person.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so if we were to look at the general picture, what do you think Poe wanted us to take from this? (Emma asked this in the inner circle.)
ReplyDelete@Kelsie: I see where you are going, but then lost you. Could you explain this more?
ReplyDeleteMichaela- I think the whispering is to show that he's just talking to himself. Like when some people have a mental illness where they talk to themselves they don't shout out what they're saying unless it's a catharist( or whatever the word is) like when Wilson had one towards the end
ReplyDelete@Madeline- Because the other William Wilson is not a real person but his conscious.
ReplyDelete@ Katie. But if they were his barbaric yawps then would they need be different from the time or society. If that is his yawp then what evidence is there to show that?
ReplyDelete@ Katie F. I believe the mental issues in the short stories we have read were included in the story because Poe himself struggled with mental health.
ReplyDelete@Michaela,I think he wanted us to take away the lesson that we shouldn't battle our inner demons because we will injure ourselves in the process of killing the demon.
ReplyDelete@Madeline, I think he may have been unintentional, but he noticed it and left it, because it works well to have that piece of himself in it.
ReplyDeleteMichaela- Are you looking for a theme?
ReplyDeleteClass- Would you agree that William Wilson has a moment of catharsis when he kills the other William Wilson? Or do you see another point in the story when this happens?
ReplyDelete@MadeleineJ: Good point. Yes, I think it was intentional he connected the main character to himself in order to make the character represent his own story. I believe Poe was passionate about this, and he probably went through a similar conflict of battling with himself.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie: Do you mean, then, that we should just let our "inner demons" thrive?
ReplyDeleteIn connection to anyone's life, we might have had a time where we have felt an enemy try to be a better version of us, which seemed to be the case at first, yet what caused such a mystery is how this other Wilson was a complete stranger until the original Wilson left his family and their treating his illness. He is all of a sudden two people, yet complete opposites, and he does not overall hate him, because he still has that feeling of himself somewhere in the second Wilson.
ReplyDeleteI think that a lot of the reason behind Poe's work was to confront his own consience and in doing so help others to cofront their own to answer the quote at the begining, "What say of it? what say (of) CONSCIENCE grim, That spectre in my path?"
ReplyDeleteI believe Poe wrote this story more for himself than his readers, but I think he wanted us to take away that if we ever battled dual personalities that we need to fight through it and prevent ourselves from acknowledging the other personality.
ReplyDelete@ Katie- How do we know that the other William Wilson is not real? Perhaps it is a real person that the narrator has imprinted his own image upon.
ReplyDelete@Madeline: Sure, a theme.
ReplyDelete@AnnaS, so in the last 3 paragraphs of the story, William Wilson says he hears Wilson speak. He also says that he imagines himself saying it instead of Wilson. The thing that Wilson says is that William Wilson killed Wilson and himself. So I think he's saying that he killed himself in the process of killing his conscious and he finally realized that it's been himself all along. I don't know if you get what I'm saying or not but I hope I explained my thinking to you:)
ReplyDelete@Michael: I think that Poe wants us to some to terms with ourselves. He wrote this story so that we can be one with our conscious.
ReplyDelete@Allise- I think that William Wilson had a "release" and in the text it says " You have conquered, and I yield."
ReplyDeleteHarper- And could that battle never ended?
ReplyDeleteKind of like what John said in the inner circle, I think Poe does a good job of being able to show the honest truth of people. He doesn't sugarcoat it at all, he goes deep into the personality and lives of the people he writes about.
ReplyDeleteAnna:I think this story is meant to symbolize the idea of the double person. How you have your outer appearance and then your inner subconscious. It does make sense that you could be afraid of yourself in the way that William Wilson is, but I wonder if William Wilson was afraid of himself, why didn't he try to change so that he wouldn't be afraid?
ReplyDelete@Michaela, not necessarily but I think you shouldn't battle them, you should just ignore them and let them die out.
ReplyDelete@Allise: I do believe the moment of catharsis is when he kills the other Wilson because he seems to hear Wilson as himself, and sees Wilson dying as if it were him in a mirror. This is really when he realizes how the other Wilson was trying to help him as another part of himself.
ReplyDelete@Kelsie: How can you be sure that they'll die out?
ReplyDelete@class: Is the wall around the schoolyard a motif? If you think so, what significance does it have?
ReplyDelete@Class: What happened in the other Wilson's chambers when Wilson was going to play a trick on him?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Micheal, because something that Poe brings to his stories always has that element of sin and how the actions of some people cannot be reversed, just a cold hard truth.
ReplyDeleteAllise: I think that the moment of catharsis for William was when the mirror suddenly appeared, creating the "ah-ha" moment for the reader and the narrator.
ReplyDelete