Much better job last time. Most were very participatory throughout, thoughtfully directing questions toward the class and/or particular individuals. Again, remember this is a formal written response and your grammar, punctuation, spelling, and mechanics should be indicative of this.
Happy posting!
What do you think about how on the first page it says that "their jokes were quiet and they smiled rather than laughed."?
ReplyDeleteI believe that the altered tradition and the forgetfullness of major areas of this lottery are a metaphor to perhaps lost ideals. What do you guys think?
ReplyDeleteI think that the story is to represent the innocent ways that people can be devious. At first glance no one would give a second thought to what was going on in the village, but then when the gathering of rocks by the little children turned out to be for a more deadly purpose then first interpreted, I think this exposes how something is not always as it seems.
ReplyDelete@Jessica... I think that when they smiled instead of laughed can symbolize how the people are still comfortable around each other, but they have a greater knowledge that keeps them quiet in their manner.
ReplyDeleteI found connections to many other lottery type drawings for life. Most notably the story of the minotaur and The Hunger Games. One difference is most of these stories only center around the killing of children. Why do you think adults are included and killed in The Lottery when they are not in the other stories?
ReplyDeleteJessica- I thought that it was the first clue that something was not quite right in the village. But it is still the begging of the story, when the reader does not think back on this statement until the ending.
ReplyDeleteJessica- It might be because even on this terrible day, jokes are still told and appreciated as they would ususally be on any other day. In fact, the smiles instead of laughs could be contributed to the terrible history of this town.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the innocence of the village helped add to the uncanniness. The people seemed to be the stereotypical village life, but at the end, the whole story turns around when you find out that they stone the winner. This shows the opposites residing in the same place.
ReplyDeleteAaron: Through out the entire story Jackson talks about how they don't remember the rituals. I find it strange that they continue doing the lottery, why do you think they still do it?
ReplyDeleteDo you think that Shirley Jackson used improper grammer and punctuation throughout the story on purpose, if so why??
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think the symbolism of the "lottery" is?
ReplyDeleteSara- I saw that adults were included to show that anyone and everyone can be affected by this lottery. If you were to symbolize the lottery as death or pain, it would show an overwhelming blanket of this symbol.
ReplyDeleteClass: Why does Shirley Jackson focus so much on time and the timing of actions?
ReplyDeleteDuring the story, the words "ritual" and "tradition" were mentioned a lot when talking about the lottery. I think it can connect to the thought of fear of change. They mention that other villages are giving up the lottery and they are disgusted by that. Based on the stories we've read so far... how does change effect people in Gothic texts?
ReplyDeleteMaria- I feel like the reason why they still continue to do this relates to the familiar versus unfamiliar idea and because they lottery was familiar they continued the lottery
ReplyDeleteWhat aspects of the ritual did they leave out over time? What do they represent?
ReplyDeleteThe uncanny concept I found in "The Lottery",included that of the word lottery we know this word to mean winning money and or gifts it is a good thing that you want to win, but this common archetype is then transformed into a misfortune for the person that wins the lottery. Why do you think Jackson changed the common archetype of what a lottery is?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aaron. I felt that they were continuing on with the lottery more out of tradition and habit, and that they had lost their true goal in the lottery taking place. Which is displayed by the fact that they choose to hold on to the old black box rather than interchanging it for the newer type that a ceremony as important as the lottery deserves.
ReplyDeleteJessica- She uses improper grammar to paint a better picture of what the town is like. It give the story a feeling of the past.
ReplyDeleteCorbin, I totally agree. I think that a large point in this story was to expose almost the savage side of humans, and how an innocent event can be turned in an instant.
ReplyDeleteChris: The lottery represents that your time can come at any point; it doesn't matter who you are or what you've done at that point, you're going to die no matter what. When Mrs. Hutchinson chooses the piece of paper with the dot, she thinks it's unfair. But in reality it is completely random and it will happen whether you like it or not.
ReplyDeleteMaria- It tradition. Even though most of the rituals and anthems have been forgotten or substituted, it seems as though all of these townsfolk force themselves to do it every year regardless of what was lost. It also almost seems that these people are brainwashed by the elders, saying that terrible things would happen if they didn't do the lottery.
ReplyDeleteGoing back to the guiding question. This seems to be saying that the culture is to blame for these actions. It is tradition so people do not question it.
ReplyDeleteDaniel: I don't think that the specific aspects of the ritual they leave out are as important as having lost the meaning of the ritual, because in this they have lost the meaning of what their actions are. The theme I think this arises is the danger of blindly following tradition and not being open to change.
ReplyDeleteI think the box represents the same thing that the House of Usher did. By being the main focal point of the story it is the one thing that instills fear into the hearts of the villagers, just like the House of Usher terrified the author in the other story.
ReplyDeleteHow do you all think this story exposes the reaction of the people to the Rationalist movement?
ReplyDeleteI feel like the black box represents the lottery, as it becomes in worse condition each year and how they have a partial thought or intentions to do something about it, yet never actually fix it and continue to use it year round as it continues to fall apart.
ReplyDeleteNicoleB - I think that Jackson portrays the story this way because she wants to show how something so innocent and good can be twisted to become something so terrible. She wants us to realize that anything can be changed in this way and we should be pertinent.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I think she uses time to build some suspense for the reader. We are used to the concept of time. IT is something that we all relate to. But what is scary about this story is that the time and order brings death.
ReplyDeleteDaniel - If the citizens do not question it, why are they still so supportive of it when they hear that nearby villages have given up the lottery?
ReplyDeleteAaron: If the tradition of the lottery means so much, then why did they change from wood chips to paper?
ReplyDeleteChristiana - I think that this shows the reaction by the idea of this tradition. Many people wanted to stay with their beliefs that had become tradition, but it also shows that a change was needed greatly.
ReplyDeleteDanny-Great point! I think a large aspect of this story is the danger of tradition and blindly following what your told. The idea of ritual and compliance is so strong in society and especially this village,the author made the point that humans are capable of such horrors.
ReplyDeleteJohn: What part of the text makes you think this?
ReplyDeleteKimberly: Why how does time affect the human psyche, in your opinion? How does this relate to the story?
ReplyDeleteI think that it is interesting that things like this happened in history. During the French revolution, people were put to death almost as a show. Gladiators fought to the death in a public setting. Although we look at this story as really creepy, it is not too far from the truth.
ReplyDeleteOn page 4 the people are talking about other villages that have already given up The Lottery. How did The Lottery get instilled in the first place, and why are the people so reluctant to dispose of it?
ReplyDelete@MariaB you mention that the villagers "are disgusted" by the fact that others are giving up the lottery, but I don't think this is true of all of them. I believe the ones who originally bring it up probably want to get rid of it and are fascinated by the idea of not having a lottery.
ReplyDeleteClass: What is the significance of the shabby state of the box?
ReplyDeleteWhat is their reason for this ritual? Do you think it's all fun and games or if there is an actual reason, as they refer to the towns that have dismissed the tradtion as "'Pack of young fools."
ReplyDeleteMaria- Perhaps its because the elders wanted to make it THEIR lottery with THEIR rules. Maybe its to symbolize the transition of people in the village from people to mindless sheep following this box. I personally believe its to give more incentive for the people to do it, less fear. Scraps of paper aren't terrifying, wood chips are scarier to think about.
ReplyDeleteDaniel - I think what makes the story creepy is the modern setting. It is uncanny because in a modern setting we expect people to be civilized, but instead we get people who are uncivilized.
ReplyDeleteNicoleB - The main reason that I said what I did was mainly because of the end of the story when Tessie is stoned. This may just be my way of interpreting it, but it seems like she is trying to show how bad things can get, because such a good idea like a lottery can be changed into something in which someone died.
ReplyDeleteMaria- Its a lot like the uncanny idea. When something we are use to becomes unnatural. A happy small isolated village refusing to change their ways is not something unheard of. But when they start killing each other for no good reason, its a little shocking.
ReplyDeleteCorbin- I think people are so reluctant to dispose of the lottery because of how normal it became to this village. However, I also think it has to do with the fact that the younger people are the ones that want to change the tradition.
ReplyDeleteJessica- I think their reason may be a sacrifice in hopes of a good harvest or peace in their town. Also, they must refer to those other towns in that way because of strong religious or cultural beliefs.
ReplyDeleteAaron: Why are the wood chips scarier? Why is this significant?
ReplyDeleteSeany- Do you believe that humans can adapt and become better? Humans have been this cruel in history, but I don't think it happens nearly as much in recent history. Is this because we become better or show our evil in oter aspects of life?
ReplyDelete@Maria- I think the state of the box represents how you "can't judge a book by its cover" and that even though something may look harmless, there is real power beneath it, like the House of Usher.
ReplyDeleteI think the this story could have been a result of the senseless killing of the millions of jews in WWII.
ReplyDeleteJessica- I think the ritual had a perpuse early on. But as time went on that reasoning was forgotten and the lottery became a part of their culture.
ReplyDeleteKimberly: So you're saying that time is familiar in that we experience it constantly, but it is unfamiliar in that we don't know when our time will stop?
ReplyDeleteDaniel: That is an interesting point, so are you saying that the Gothic movement is partly centered around how the mind evolves but still holds true to roots from the past. As if humans have an ingrained transfix-ion with death, whether it be for sacrifice or to scare others to follow the rules.
ReplyDeleteClass: What do you think would have happened if Mrs. Hutchinson wouldn't have showed up at the lottery??
ReplyDelete@Jessica I believe they partake in the lottery in order for their crops to grow "'lottery in June, corn be heavy soon.' First thing you know we'd all be eating stewed chickenweed and acorns."
ReplyDeleteDanny Boy- I think that humans can "adapt" to a certain degree. Though I think that humans are wired, so to speak, a certain way, and that there are certain aspects and quirks of the psyche that cannot be changed. But on the contrary, I think that there is a certain role society plays in the influence of the individual. When the society changes, that aspect of humans change as well.
ReplyDeleteMaria- Eh, it's just a thought. Personally I would prefer holding a piece of paper rather then a wood chip. And like I said, the significance of the wood chips to paper change would represent a courtesy. Giving them then lesser of two evils, holding a "harmless" piece of paper instead of a rough, chunky wood chip.
ReplyDeleteCorbin: What do you think the box represents about their society? How does it relate to the theme of the reading?
ReplyDelete@Class- Do you think the Lottery is rigged to pull out names that the society wants to get rid of?
ReplyDeleteJessica- If she didn't show up at the lottery that she might not have died. But her husband still drew the black spot and so someone else in her family would die.
ReplyDelete@Corbin- If your assumption is true, then how exactly would they be able to influence who recieves the dot??
ReplyDeleteCorbin- I think it is definitely a possibility. Or, I think it could have to do with the amount of wrongdoings a person has done and the amount of people that know about those wrongdoings.
ReplyDeleteSeanyboy- So is humanity becoming better or worse? Society seems to be becoming much more immoral as shown by what is shown on television, although we appear to be more "civilized."
ReplyDelete@MariaK- The box symbolizes the figure of power that has control in their society. Since the box has so much influence no one has the authority to "challenge the system" which is why Old Man Warner thinks it's preposterous that other villages has gotten rid of the Lottery.
ReplyDeleteCorbin- That would make sense if they rigged it, but I don't think it is, because Mrs. Hutchinson was well liked by people. You can tell by text hints, because people laugh at her and are kind to her, so why would they rig it to kill her?
ReplyDeleteCorbin- I don't think so. I think the lottery represents random violence: something more uncivilized that eliminating specific people.
ReplyDeleteCorbin - That is a strange way of thinking of it, but it does make sense. For example, it is strange that Ms. Hutchinson was the only one that talked about the lottery being unfair, and she was the one that got picked in the end. Since it is such a long kept tradition, they did not want anyone ruining what was going on. They did not want change.
ReplyDeleteClass: On the first page, it says "Bobby Martin had already stuffed his pockets full of stones, and the other boys soon followed his example, selecting the smoothest and roundest stones." So this brought me to the question what do stones represent throughout the text? Why do they want the smoothest and roundest stones?
ReplyDeleteDaniel- You make a good point in your exclusive conversation with Sean, how do you believe we are more "civilized" than other or past societies or cultures?
ReplyDeleteI found it significant that the oldest character in the village and one of the youngest characters in the village are mentioned in detail. Old man Warner holds so tight to the lottery because it is what he grew up on and has been living by it for so long. Little Dave is even more interesting because at a very young age he helps to kill his mother and this is normal for him. "The children had stones already. And someone gave little Davy Hutchinson a few pebbles."
ReplyDeleteThe number 7 is a huge religious number, 7 and 11 are both God's numbers, so the fact that Old Man Warner is 77 (7 multiplied by 11),is interesting because both of God's numbers arr combined to make his age. Do you think in this way Jackson was trying to reveal how religion was opposed to change? Because the author has the section in the story has Warner talking about how there should be no change to the tradition of the lottery.
ReplyDeleteDanbizzle- I think that humanity is not necessarily changing for better or worse, but changing. I think we are definitely becoming looser on morals, but are becoming much more civilized. You no longer see the kind of savagery found in ancient times, or even in a setting like "The Lottery".
ReplyDeleteTroy, to support your point, a wise man once said, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
ReplyDeleteMaria~ I feel like they are expressing possibly an unconcious or concious sympathy towards the person chosen. Although they may enjoy the activity, it does not mean that they do not pity their neighbors.
ReplyDeleteMaria- I thought the stones represented the amount a sin a person had and that getting rid of their stones was their way of becoming "pure".
ReplyDeleteSara: If Old Man Warren is so attached to the lottery, then why does he say, "'It's not the way it used to be.' Old Man Warren said clearly. 'People ain't the way they used to be'"?
ReplyDelete@Class- What would it take to overcome "the lottery"? Would it be positive or negative for this town if they would abandon the tradition?
ReplyDelete@MariaK I think the stones represent death, and the fact that the children play with the rocks and see stoning someone as a game shows that the children are not aware of and don't fear death. Whereas the fathers avoid the stones because they are afraid of death "They stood together, away from the pile of stones in the corner"
ReplyDeleteMaria- I think it would be beneficial to the town. For one there population will increase. But to over come the lottery would take a lot of work from the citizens. They would have to want to stop doing the lottery.
ReplyDeleteMaria: The smoothest and roundest rocks, are going to be the closets to a sphere and a sphere consists of many circles around a center point. I feel like circles represent how they cannot break out of the circle minded thinking that this is what they do, they pick a person, stone them, move on and conduct the same actions again and again.And how they are all centering around this concept of the lottery and can not distance themselves from it, since every point of a circle is the same distance from the center.
ReplyDeleteMaria~ I feel like there may not be a way for them immediately to experience what is right but if others hear or talk to people in other towns without the lottery they may soon realize what they are doing wrong, and take action to eliminate the perception of enjoyment in hurting/killing others.
ReplyDeleteChristiana: If the stones represent sins, then why would the people be throwing their stones at other people? Why would people's previous sins kill another?
ReplyDeleteSara - I completely agree with what you said about Little Dave. I think that it also really shows how brainwashed the people of that town were. I like how you said that it was completely normal for him to help kill his own mother, and it shows that he must have not choice. Do you think that Little Dave would have been alright with this act if it had not been such a tradition?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think is the symbolism of the execution technique being stoning?
ReplyDeleteI believe that the society is to blame here for all of the atrocities that have occurred because of the Lottery. They have the choice to get rid of it, but because all of them follow the crowd they don't realize what the are doing.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing we didn't really mention is the fact that the box is black. We've discussed how black is a symbol of death and darkness and I think it is definitely a part of the experience.
ReplyDelete@MariaK I don't feel that Old Man Warren is attached to the way the lottery is now, but to how it was when he was a child, which to him is the true unstained version of the lottery.
ReplyDeleteMaria K~ I think that he says this because people never used to complain about the lottery rather than now when some people are realizing the wrong of it and suggesting change... I believe he wants it to go without any sympathy or pity in the tradition for his life in over 77 years.
ReplyDeleteI think that people have free agency. That is undeniable. The issue is that when society tells a person that a certain action (stoning a person) is not wrong. We would like to blame the people, but we all do similar things. Many people wear cloths because their friends do. People say offensive language, because they don't feel it is wrong. How are those decisions much different than what the lottery observes.
ReplyDeleteI think that they were trying to put all their sin on one person in order to purify themselves.
ReplyDelete